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I just got off the phone with in-laws in Aussie. They want the boy to be snipped. I always thought it was weird....the snip....I don’t mean to be a dickhead (excuse the pun) but WHY? People all over the world watch their TV's in horror as girls are mutilated in Africa, yet readily do it to their own little boys. I have an inkling that it is something to do with cleanliness or religion. If that is the case a good bar of soap and some proper education could easily solve that old argument.
Before the birth my partner and I easily decided, no go. Turns out it wasn’t such a big problem. Here in little old New Zealand the practise has almost been abandoned. Under ten per cent of the male newborn population undergo this almost outdated procedure, with the majority of them Jewish, Muslim or Polynesians. In fact even if you wanted to get it done, it would nearly be impossible as hospitals don’t even offer the service. Most of the western world’s medical organisations do not recommend circumcision anymore except for the US. About 50% of its newborn males have their foreskins amputated. Strange considering the foreskin accounts for over half the penile skin and contains specialised nerve endings.
However my Aussie in-laws are still horrified. Turns out a lot of the Australian male population are skinless and proud. But I remain staunch, my son will have his penis intact with all his parts- just like my my brother who is uncircumcised and pleased. He maintains that he needs his foreskin in case he meets with an accident and lose his eyelids. I’m not sure what this entails, but good for him.
Now, there is one point that has recently reared its ugly head (another pun excuse me), circumcision may help to prevent the spread of HIV. Although it is done with out anaesthetic, sees the foreskin ripped away from the glands and is then either cut away or clamped until it falls off (some babies even lose their penis to infection) the Center For Disease Control and Prevention in the US is debating the fact that the tissue in foreskins is more susceptible to HIV infection.
What ever the argument, circumcision is a very personal choice and one that only parents should make.
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Comments
Circumcision is not actually
Circumcision is not actually recommended in the United States, yet. Until the questionable HIV studies came around the American Academy of Pediatrics did not routinely recommend it. Now that the WHO is recommending it they are reconsidering, unfortunately. But for now, it's not recommended although commonly done. Fortunately the number of American boys being subjected to circumcision is decreasing and hopefully the HIV studies will be scrutinized more closely and the issue considered in light of a more realistic comparison of European rates of HIV and STD's (lower than the US) and rates of circumcision (much lower than the US). Obviously circumcision isn't the deciding factor in avoiding HIV or STD's.
Anybody who recommends
Anybody who recommends circumcision as a means to
have less chance to become infected with hiv will be
held accountable, responsible and guilty of falsely
giving people the idea to undergo circumcision who then
in fact become infected after not having used protection/
condoms, it is not just a little bit wrong, this idea is
very, VERY wrong.
The Australian rate of male
The Australian rate of male circumcision is down from about 90% in 1950 to 12.6%, so your in-laws are way out of step. "Routine" circumcision is actually *banned* in public hospitals in Australia in all states except one.
RACP Policy Statement on Circumcision
"After extensive review of the literature the Royal Australasian College of Physicians reaffirms that there is no medical indication for routine neonatal circumcision."
(those last nine words are in bold on their website, and almost all the men responsible for this statement will be circumcised themselves. )
You might also want to check out the following:
Canadian Paediatric Society
"Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancy&babies/circumcision.htm
"Circumcision is a 'non-therapeutic' procedure, which means it is not medically necessary."
"After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions.
British Medical Association: The law and ethics of male circumcision - guidance for doctors
"to circumcise for therapeutic reasons where medical research has shown other techniques to be at least as effective and less invasive would be unethical and inappropriate."
Drops in male circumcision:
USA: from 90% to 57%
Canada: from 47% to 9.2%
UK: from 35% to about 5% (less than 1% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.6% ("routine" circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states except one, so the rate will now be a lot lower)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%
The HIV thing is a huge red herring. In Europe, almost no-one circumcises unless they're Muslim or Jewish, and they have significantly lower rates than the USA of almost all STI's including HIV.
Even in Africa, there are six countries where men are *more* likely to be HIV+ if they've been circumcised: Rwanda, Cameroon, Ghana, Lesotho, Malawi, and Swaziland. Eg in Malawi, the HIV rate is 13.2% among circumcised men, but only 9.5% among intact men. In Cameroon, the HIV rate is 4.1% among circumcised men, but only 1.1% among intact men. If circumcision really worked against AIDS, this just wouldn't happen. We now have people calling circumcision a "vaccine" or "invisible condom", and viewing circumcision as an alternative to condoms.
ABC (Abstinence, Being faithful, Condoms) is the way forward. Promoting genital surgery will cost lives, not save them.
It looks like the links were
It looks like the links were taken out of my comment, but you can find all those quotes at the medical societies' own websites.
awesome info, thanks for
awesome info, thanks for that.
I believe in the snip purely
I believe in the snip purely for cleanliness. Men who get the snip later in life, as a choice, experience mega pain but are more than happy with the results...speaking from experience of friends.
I saw a TV documentary where 2 African villages near one another - one snipped one not - where the rate of HIV was greater in the village of non-snipped as viruses can can enter the body through the glands[?]in the foreskin and it can often be unhygienic.
Then there are those purist who have their foreskin reattached using skin from other areas of their body and things under the 'hood' eventually return to almost normal.
Mind you if I had to wear a kilt in Scotland I'd definitely want a foreskin to stop the rub of the coarse tweed!!
Well i agree with your last
Well i agree with your last comment about the kilt .
The comments from Anonymous
The comments from Anonymous about Africa is highly misleading. In a recent analysis of 13 sub saharan African countries by leading French demographics expert, Garenne, in 8 there was no difference in HIV infection among cut and uncut, in two the cut had lower HIV but in THREE the cut had higher HIV. This is why the results trumpeted from the controlled trials seem dubious. Can he explain why Israel has the same rate as Sweden? Why does the US in which 80% of adult males are cut have one of the highest HIV rates in the developed world?. In Britain 6.1% of cut gay men have HIV as opposed to 5% of the uncut - a significant difference.
As for the hygiene argument, come on Anonymous have you never got up close and personal with a vulva? We have the same flaps and folds which harbour smegma, viruses and bacteria if we don't take care of them. The answer is clearly not surgery or we'd cut little girls flaps off wouldn't we? Given that in Tanzania it was found that women who'd had their flaps excised had 40% less HIV this analogy is more pertinent than ever. The failure to translate this finding into a randomised controlled trial of female 'snipping' shows that infant genital surgery is not a proportionate response to a risk of HIV among adults who choose risky behaviour.
As for pain we know babies experience what you call 'mega pain' in genital surgery. How dare you imply they dont'? A baby has the additional psychological trauma of not understanding why this is being done to him by those he trusts and not knowing during it when it will stop. An adult man can demand general anaesthetic if he prefers and use as many analgaesics in the recovery period as he needs. He also won't have his wound soaked in faeces every day until it heals.
Anonymous i know who you are and your campaign to institute forced circ is a disgrace. It's not too late to recognise you are wrong and join us in protecting babies boys and men.
Rebekah some corrections
Rebekah some corrections which you may have already seen but they are useful. The rate of circumcision in Australia is only about 10% - 15%, their abandonment started perhaps half a generation after NZ. Hopefully they'll get to where you are in the not too distant future. Recently the RACP announced their new policy, here is the brief: tinyurl.com/m27ktr The nuts and bolts of it are despite the evidence from Africa, circumcision is not a necessary or recommended procedure for boys in NZ or Australia. The AFAO has a great data sheet on this: tinyurl.com/5gofa9.
I am in the US and for reasons I can't comprehend the CDC and AAP are still thinking about this. The HIV/AIDS situation in the US is not all that different from Aus/NZ and circumcision would change things very little for most boys. It is largely a cultural issue rather than a medical one Americans have a strong irrational attachment to circumcision.
In any case, I thought that would be of interest.
I am 100% against strongly
I am 100% against strongly encouraging parents to routinely circumcise their newborn boys.
Here are my reasons:
The circumcision rate has decreased in the United States to the lowest point since before WWII. More and more people are realizing that the United States being the only Westernized country with the majority of boys being circumcised for non-religious reasons is wrong in its thinking.
The foreskin, which is a healthy body part that serves a major function in protecting the glans of newborns, belongs to the owner. Parents and doctors should only concern themselves in the VERY rare event that there is an anomaly necessitating the modification or removing of the foreskin. This is a civil rights issue. In our country, we have seen lawsuits filed against doctors and parents by young men who have been circumcised against their will. I believe there will be an increase in this activity. We have laws against modifying female genitalia, why not protect males as well? This is a double standard. The female genitalia is responsible for spreading and harboring disease, yet we protect females. "Circumcised" females would also be cleaner and lead to higher reductions in transferring disease.
The foreskin protects the glans, keeping the skin of the glans soft and sensitive. This is a major plus during sexual activity, whether it be masturbation, intercourse or other activity. In addition, the female and male both benefit from the foreskin's gliding action leading to more pleasure for both parties.
The foreskin has some 20,000 nerve receptors, providing more sexual satisfaction for the male.
The removal of the foreskin often has adverse results. Many men say they feel robbed because they find a hardening of the skin on the glans leading to less sensitivity. Many men feel robbed because they did not have the choice to choose between having and not having a foreskin. Circumcision also leads to too much or too little skin being removed. Too much skin removed leads to painful erections. Too little removed leads to re-circumcisions and penile skin adhesions. Also, the instance of meatal stenosis is high. Cosmetically, a lot of circumcisions have glaring scarring that is there for the life of the male.
The act of circumcising a newborn is painful. Even though there are guidelines strongly recommending proper anesthesia, many doctors use no anesthesia or use Emla Cream which is not recommended by the manufacturer or the AAP. Imagine, the pain of feces and urine stinging the open wound over the week to ten days it takes to fully heal.
A study that was unveiled on the opening day of the CDC Convention in Atlanta showed very clearly that mass circumcision would not make a dent in the number of HIV/Aids cases in the United States. Almost all of the cases are derived from male-to-male sex and dirty needles.
There is a belief that uncircumcised males suffer from an elevated level of urinary tract infections. Yes, there is a slight elevation compared to their circumcised counterparts, but still below the incidence of urinary tract infections in baby girls.
There is a belief that uncircumcised males will get penis cancer. As you know, it is VERY rare to see penis cancer in an uncircumcised man.
There is a belief that chlamydia is spread by uncircumcised males. It is a rampant disease with no relation to circumcision status.
It is said there is a slight increase in cases of syphilis and gonorrhea instances in and transference from uncircumcised males to others. It is important to note that these are slight increases.
As a country, we need to closely observe why in several European countries, circumcision rates are under 10% and HIV rates are also minuscule. I imagine it is because of more education of youth and adults so that protective actions are taken prior to sex. Unprotected sex is the problem, not the foreskin. The CDC's energies would be far better spent on massive education on how to have safe sex and about the need for abstinence if protection isn't used. Let's say the cost of circumcision is $300.00 and let's say that all insurance companies and all state Medicaid programs covered neonatal circumcision. In one year, a million circumcisions would cost $300,000,000. That is a lot of money that could be put into education and the availability of free condoms. And, because this program would not be aimed solely at circumcision (which would have only a slight positive effect of the spreading of disease) we would see a major downturn in all types of diseases and in children being born out of wedlock and in other non-planned pregnancies. We are talking about BILLIONS of dollars in benefit every year.
Leave our foreskins alone. Appreciate all of the positive aspects of leaving little babies intact. Should a young man decide he wants a circumcision, then it becomes his choice. In writing a recommendation, clearly state the true statements regarding the minor benefits of circumcision, but instead of recommending universal circumcision of baby boys, stress what needs to be done in preventing contact between infected and unifected people and stress the need for medical screening of sexually active teens and adults to identify and treat STD's.
Circumcised boys less likely
Circumcised boys less likely to contract HIV?
By that reasoning should we should also be circumcising girls too..?
Yes, the African studies
Yes, the African studies that have received the widest press deal with female to male transfer of HIV. The females there are the harbingers, unlike in the USA. That is why male circumcision is not expected to have significant positve effects on HIV transmission in the US as nearly all of the US cases are because of shared needles and gay male-to-male sex among mostly circumcised men!
"circumcision is a very
"circumcision is a very personal choice and one that only parents should make."
Good sentiment there, it is a personal choice. But, you should have said "one that only the OWNER OF THE PENIS should make."
My parents did not own my body and should not have had me circumcised. I resent deeply that a part of my sex organ was removed without my permission.
Many men are finding out that they miss their foreskin. They, like me, are restoring their foreskin to regain what was taken from us at birth. See http://www.RestoringForeskin.org to read stories of men who wish they had never been circumcised and are doing something about it.
Many men are very upset with their parents for having them circumcised. This is particularly true of younger men, who can easily research circumcision on the Internet and wonder why their parents ignored the evidence available to them.
You mention your brother's
You mention your brother's status, but what about your partner? did you ever consider that he feels good about his status and himself? what message are you addressing to him when you use words such as intact penis? would you imply that there is something wrong with his penis?
everyone's decision is private and personal of course, but be careful about the arguments that you use and the reasons you pick and how to voice them, do not make your partner feel inferior and incomplete, and I am sure that your in laws did not love and care about their son any less than you love yours when they took their decision when he was born.
My partner wishes that he
My partner wishes that he had not been circumcised either, which is why we have decided not to have our son done. It wasn't really a conscious decision anyway as hospitals don't preform them anymore.