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Wellington, Oct 13 NZPA - A television psychic who claimed to have seen where the body of Aisling Symes was last week was not only wrong, but she should be ashamed of exploiting a family's pain, says the head of a sceptics group.
Two-year-old Aisling was discovered last night in a drain in a property next door to where she went missing a week ago.
Police are now investigating exactly how she got into the drain and how long she had been there for.
On a Facebook page dedicated to finding Aisling, a Symes family spokesperson said they were not interested in hearing from psychics.
"Please do not suggest psychics, the family are a strong Christian family, and will not consider this under any circumstances," they said.
"I know you are all just trying to think of anything to help but it's not helpful for us to see that on here, sorry," the message said.
But last Wednesday, Sensing Murder medium Deb Webber said she had details about the case during an interview on TVNZ's Breakfast programme.
"I was walking past the television and [Aisling] popped up, and I went, `Oh, she's in a ditch, hole, in West Auckland'," she said.
"That's what I got instantly."
NZ Skeptics (crrct) chair Vicki Hyde said Webber's prediction was wrong.
"Well a ditch is not a drain," she told NZPA.
"It's not sensing murder, it's sensing opportunity, sensing exploitation and there's nothing worse than exploiting parents who are under such strain and stresses."
TVNZ were not blameless either, Ms Hyde said.
They were guilty of using the situation as a marketing ploy, both for the station and the psychics, she said.
"There's really no entertainment value in watching a family go through this sort of agony over a week wondering what's happening to their missing child. And nor should there be."
There had been numerous examples of psychics making claims that were incorrect, she said.
"There was a missing guy in Wellington who was said to have been abducted by a bunch of Maori in a beaten up car, when in fact he had fallen down a skylight after a night on the town.
Psychic Margaret Birkin was also convinced she could find the bodies of Olivia Hope and Ben Smart between Maud Island and Dart Rock in Pelorus Sound.
She was accompanied by four other psychics and three divers, but the search came to nothing.
"That must have been terrible for the parents," Ms Hyde said.
"Everyone always says `Oh well it doesn't harm, they're just trying to help'.
"They know damn well there's harm."
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Comments
NZ Skeptics (crrct) chair
NZ Skeptics (crrct) chair Vicki Hyde said Webber's prediction was wrong.
"Well a ditch is not a drain," she told NZPA
BUT she was in a "hole" and in "West Auckland", oddly omitted by Ms Hyde during her rant.
in my opinion Deb Webber was
in my opinion Deb Webber was spot on.
this vicky hyde just sounds ridiculous with her rant about Deb Webber. Deb Webber was in no way commenting out of malious or for her own benefit.
It is unfortunate that Deb was right in this case, but she truly has a wonderful gift that has been helping people for years.
Spot on? Get real. You'd be
Spot on? Get real. You'd be saying she was spot on if Aisling had been found in a a shallow grave, a minor depression in the ground, or a crawlspace under a house. Which is exactly why Deb Webber and all these other frauds use such sweeping statements. It's a wonder she didn't also add that old standard - "She'll be found near water", which can also cover anything from a tap to a river to the sea.
The "West Auckland" bit was also pretty safe to add. At the time Webber said it, she knew that if it turned out to be a tragic accident Aisling would be found close to the last place she was seen. And if it turned out to be an abduction, past experience tells us she also would probably be found within the same general area. And "West Auckland" can cover all of western Auckland.
But despite making a statement so broad as to be meaningless, she still got it wrong. A hole is not a stormwater drain. A ditch is not a stormwater drain. Anyone who says they are should consult a dictionary.
And of course Deb Webber was commenting for her own benefit. There was absolutely nothing in that statement that could be followed up by the police (assuming, that is, that they would be stupid enough to give credence to "psychics") or that assisted anyone in any way - anyone except Deb Webber, that is. She expolits the grief and anguish of the situation by raising her profile and ensures future earnings by making a vague comment that her marketing team and the gullible will later use as proof of her "gift". The only gift she has is the gift of making money by fleecing the credulous.
A 'ditch' has to be dug to
A 'ditch' has to be dug to provide ensuing 'drain - age'. When water flows through the long narrow excavation, it becomes a 'drain'. Semantics.
Instead of coming down hard over something you clearly know little about, how about praying for the soul of that dear little girl.
Deb Webber did not say "West
Deb Webber did not say "West Auckland". The proof is here.
http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/deb-webber-real-life-ghost-whisperer-7-04-3050960/video
"A 'ditch' has to be dug to
"A 'ditch' has to be dug to provide ensuing 'drain - age'. When water flows through the long narrow excavation, it becomes a 'drain'."
So, if a stormwater drain on your property blocks up, you'd phone the plumber or the council and say "come and fix the hole/ditch on my land"? Of course not - you'd say "come and fix the drain".
It's precisely this sort of rationalistion that enables frauds like Deb Webber to continue to bilk the gullible. If Aisling had been found in a well, a mineshaft, a pedestrian subway, or a train tunnel, they'd be someone posting here saying that this is a hole or a ditch and thus Webber is genuine. When a statement can be applied to so many different things, it's clearly nothing more than a guess, educated or not.
And thanks to Rationalist for the link. Webber did not say "West Auckland". All she said was "she's in ditch, hole" and then something I couldn't make out but could have been "fallen". Talk about nonsense. Shame on the "journalist" who asked the police if they were going to follow up on this "lead". Webber had nothing of value to say but she said it anyway. Why? To gain publicity. Check out the absolute piffle that Webber comes up with when Paul Henry asks her why the spirits don't just come out and say who committed a crime instead of vague generalisations - it's essentially that there's a plan for the perpetrator so the departed can't give any really helpful information. If that's the case and these people aren't supposed to be caught, why does Webber like to give the impression she's trying to catch criminals through nonsense like "Sensing Murder"?
"Instead of coming down hard over something you clearly know little about, how about praying for the soul of that dear little girl."
What, because I hate Webber exploiting the situation for her own financial gain, you somehow think I don't care about Aisling or her family? (By the bye, the family were quite clear in saying they did not appreciate people advocating the use of "psychics" to "find" Aisling.) The reason I deplore the actions of charlatans like Webber is precisely because they are use tragedies like this and people's grief to promote themsleves and make money. They are the ones who care nothing for the people involved.
As for "something [I] clearly know little about", what are you referring to? The fact that Webber has been exposed as a fraud in Australia? The fact that no "pyschic" has ever solved a police case? The fact that many "pyschics" claim to assist the police but that these claims are always found wanting? The fact that Webber makes her living out of convincing people she can communicate with the dead and thus has a strong motive to comment on high-profile unsolved crimes? The fact that "pyschics" shy away from demonstrating their "gift" under scientifc conditions? The fact that nothing that Webber and her ilk come up with is anything more than the sorts of results that can be accomplished through cold reading, an understanding of human nature and simple statistics, and the use of spies in the audience? Derren Brown produces far more astonishing parlour tricks, but he doesn't claim to be psychic.
I suppose you're going to say that I need to experience a reading myself to understand the truth of it. Well, if there are any psychics reading this, go ahead, make my day - tell me something about myself no one else but the dead could have known. Tell me that someone I knew who's now dead wants me to know that everything's all right and that they're happy on the other side. Convince me.
Ill tell you something about
Ill tell you something about yourself, your a very angry, sad person. get a life!!!!
Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry at
Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry at people profiteering off the grief of others and callously injecting themselves into situations they have nothing to contribute to.
But I'm not sad and I have a life, thanks. Perhaps you should be telling those people who swallow Webber's hogwash to get a life.
I agree with you. Webber is
I agree with you. Webber is a hoax. An opportunist.
Sceptics will go to amazing
Sceptics will go to amazing lengths to try and discredit these phenomena, just because, having limited themselves to a "nothing but the physical world" version of reality, they do not understand how psychic awareness can possibly work. They do not call all reporters frauds just because a reporter got some details wrong in his report. On a simple reading of the facts, to say that a ditch and a drain are different is to split hairs. Deb was closer to the truth than anybody else at that stage.
What "amazing lengths"?
What "amazing lengths"? Webber said a hole or a ditch. It's not going to any lengths nor is it splitting hairs to point out these are not the same as a concrete stormwater pipe. A "simple reading of the facts" shows that Webber was wrong. It's the believers who are going to amazing lengths to try to give credence to a woman who has never demonstrated anything more than an ability to do cold reading.
No, a reporter is not called a fraud if they get some details wrong because a reporter is not claiming any special ability or status as a result of that work. However, if a reporter completely fakes a report or claims to have been present at some event when they weren't, then they will be called a fraud, as, for example, Stephen Glass was. Just check out his wikipedia entry, where the first line (as of today) reads: "Stephen Glass (born 1972) is an American former journalist, known for serial fraud in his articles."
In any case, Webber didn't get "some details" wrong - she gave no details at all and what she did say was wrong.
I have to read a lot of
I have to read a lot of negative details in regard to Deb Webber. The truth be told I asked Deb Webber to assist the family after they had agreed to have her help in the search. This involved a reading being done in our home where more details were disclosed than a mere comment of she is in a hole or ditch. This was filmed by both media and privately. I spoke with family before...during..and after this.
Deb Webber was not jumping in for publicity. She was asked to assist ,and we all thank her for her kindness.
Thank you once again.
You post, if true, just
You post, if true, just shows that Webber is still milking this tragedy for all she can.
Though Paul Henry introduced the topic of Aisling, it's clear that Webber had already raised the issue with him (she had told him she had "a feeling"), knowing full well that Henry would then return to the subject in his interview. Now, you tell us that she's been filmed by the media giving a later reading on Aisling's whereabouts. How soon before we see this sickening spectacle on TV?
I note you say that the reading was done not at the Symes family's home but at your house after they had agreed to her involvement (which reads like they were pressured by you to agree). If the family were so keen on consulting Webber, why did they not have round to their place? Why did their facebook page say they did not appreciate offers of psychic help? And why are you being so coy - tell us who you are, when this reading occurred, and exactly what was revealed. I've also seen reports that TVNZ are implying that they put Webber and the Symes together within a day of the TV appearance, so how does that fit with your scenario? Finally, Webber obviously did not come up with anything more concrete, because the police still did not find her body for some days and then only after comments from Watercare workers about blockages in the drain.
Even if the Symes did ask for Webber's help, it just goes to show how disgusting this whole psychic sham show business is. People in pain are being exploited by Webber and her ilk and if your story is true you should be ashamed of your part in it.
Having watched a number of
Having watched a number of "Sensing Murder" programmes I was amazed at how well the various Psychics could exactly pinpoint, supposedly without any help, where the bodies of deceased persons had ended up, but always at locations where the bodies had been found by the police or members of the public to start with.
But when it comes to using the same Psychic sleuthing techniques to find bodies that have not yet been found by anyone, the wheels seem to fall off!
Hmmm! I wonder why that is??