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In an announcement that has taken the world by surprise, the Japanese Fisheries Agency has announced that after killing 59 Minke whales they have discovered they eat krill.
The Associated Press reports that the annual expedition off the Japanese port city of Kushiro harvested 59 whales under a research programme authorised by the International Whaling Commission.
The annual research expedition off the Northern Island of Hokkaido is "aimed at studying whales' feeding patterns and their effect on fish stocks".
There are a number of questions I have about this latest research expedition. I am hoping someone can assist me with some answers.
1. The Japanese are considered a smart race of people. So it goes without saying that their scientists must be top notch. So, why did it take them 59 whales before their clever scientists worked out that there was a pattern forming in the stomach contents of the Minke whales they were catching?
2. Why did they need to kill the whales to find out what they ate when every web site I visited after googling Minke Whales told me what they ate? (I admit I gave up when I reached double figures)
3. In this supposedly enlightened age, why - when everyone knows that 'research' programmes are the only way that whaling nations can hunt whales now - doesn't everyone be adult and admit that the catches are commercial whaling and have nothing much to do with science?
4. The hunt caught 36 male and 23 female Minke whales. Does this mean that female Minke whales are smarter than males and better at avoiding the harpoons of the 'scientists'?
5. Why did they stop at 59 whales when the research programme allowed them to take 60? Is it bad karma or something to take the maximum allowed?
6. Why be concerned with the whales' "effect on fish stocks"? Surely we don't have to be a Japanese scientists to conclude that if all these 'research' programmes carry on then, no whales equals minimal effect on fish stocks.
7. If we turn all the whales' into research then won't all the ships go extra slow plowing through all that extra krill that is swimming around in the ocean?
8. Why is International Whaling Commission member - Mongolia - so passionate about whaling? Are we lucky that whales would have become extinct centuries ago if the Mongol hordes went in the other direction, travelled thousands of mile to the sea and took to boats slaughtering the whales?
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Comments
If you read carefully the
If you read carefully the reports indicate that they found the whales in question are eating more than just krill.
1. They have also found that the composition of prey within the whale stomachs varies from year to year. It's not constant.
2. You didn't read the reports properly. It's not just krill they found the whales to be preying on.
3. It's precisely because the IWC has an unnecessary ban on whaling that Japan can only collect the sort of data they are after via lethal methods. It's standard practice in fisheries for scientific information to be gleaned from commercial catches - the IWC ban precludes this, but the IWC convention recognises the utility of data from catches and thus nations are granted the rights to permit catches for such purposes.
4. Maybe you think it does.
5. They don't always get the full number. Weather etc plays a role.
6. In Japan, whales and fish are both food. In seeking to optimise the utilisation of those marine resources it's natural to try to understand the effect they have on one and other. This is precisely what is done in other parts of the world with respect to fisheries where target species are known to interact. The only difference in this case is that Japan is interested in whales as one of the target species in the ecosystem they are planning to make management decisions about. Only people in anti-whaling nations seem to have a problem understanding this.
7. Japan permits the catch of only 60 of these whales each year, not "all" of them.
8. Why is Switzerland, who joined the IWC long before Mongolia, so pasionate (sic) about whaling? Interestingly there are more anti-whaling land-locked nations in the IWC than there are land-locked nations that support sustainable use of whale resources. As for Mongolia, they and Japan have good relations, Mongolia has no irrational objection to sustainable whaling, so why wouldn't they support Japan in that forum?
Thanks for your comments
Thanks for your comments anonymous.Yes whales eat much more than krill. I was just singling that out.
1. It is hardly surprising that the stomach contents varies. chop open 60 humans every year and we will see variation in the stomach contents.
2. Of course there is more than krill. The way the whale feeds means all sorts of small creatures end up on the menu.
3. Scientific research or commercial catches. Either way the whale die. It just means that the commercial way more of them die.
4. Well what do you think? Are female Minkes smarter? perhaps we could have a research project to find out.
6/7. Lets not get into the 1000 that are killed for research in other parts of the world. I don't agree with unsustainable whaling, but if Japan wants to kill all the whales in its waters that is their priviledge. Just stay away from other parts of the world like down here in the Southern Ocean.
8. Yes I realise there are other landlocked countries in the IWC that support the ban on commercial whaling. That is not the point I was making. The Mongols under the Khan's were a mighty force. If they realised back then they loved whaling and turned their attention to hunting them, then whales might have become endangered long before the industrial revolution.
I will just carry on being irrational. It's what I am good at.
1. Glad you recognise that
1. Glad you recognise that stomach contents may vary, and that it would be unusual for 59 whales to be eating exactly the same things in the same composition and quantity. Yet this statement doesn't reconcile well with your original sarcastic comments asking why it took Japanese scientists 59 whales to recognise there was a "pattern forming". If there is a pattern forming, why don't you get in touch with the Japanese scientists and tell them what it is? You are some genius if you could establish it just from reading these news reports.
2. Glad you recognise that they eat more than just krill, this too wasn't clear from reading your original piece that gave the impression that you thought the results from the Japanese research were available via a Google search, and that they needn't have bothered going to the effort of sampling these whales.
3. Yes, whales die. That's a given. Indeed more die when its commercial. So what? This is what happens with all forms of animal protein. Whales are not special in that regard.
4. There are theories about male and female whales feeding in different areas, go ahead and Google for it since that's your bag. In any case, as I suggest above, I don't think one can't just look at this year's samples and draw any conclusion.
6/7. What Japan does is permitted under international agreements, that New Zealand and other nations have adhered to. Japan isn't killing "all the whales in its waters", and as for international waters no nation or nations have the right to dictate what Japan may or may not do in them. Again there are international agreements that apply. The problem at the IWC is not that Japan is permitting research catches or that Iceland and Norway have objections to the moratorium, but that the IWC isn't managing whaling as it was originally intended to, and as is stated clearly and unequivocally in it's rules. New Zealand and a sub-section of its citizens may not like this reality, but not liking the situation does not change or alter it. Folks shouldn't expect whaling nations to stop whaling in their local or international waters just because some temporal cultural fad takes place in their nation. If they don't like it they should lobby the government to quit the organization and distance themselves from the agreement, rather than implicitly sanction it with their continued adherence. Finally I'll also note that less than half of the world's nation states are members of the IWC, and of those only around half are opposed to whaling. Therefore at best you are talking about a maximum of 25% of the world's nations that voice a desire for whaling nations to stop catching whales. In the rest of the world, frankly I don't think people give a damn and certainly not if the hunting is conducted on a well managed, sustainable basis.
In addition regarding 3),
In addition regarding 3), note that the whaling nations aren't happy with the fact that the IWC has a ban on whaling in place (which was only ever supposed to be temporary, but that was a lie), and are seeking to have it rationalized - e.g. so that non-endangered species may by harvested on a sustainable basis, and endangered species (such as the Blue whale which no one hunts even for research purposes due to it's conservation status) remain protected. Iceland recently resumed normal commercial whaling and caught about 120 fin whales earlier this year. Japan would no doubt like to walk a similar path. To the extent that it is sustainable and properly regulated, everyone should be able to accept this.
All this talk of
All this talk of "sustainable" and "properly regulated" is moot. Ponder for a moment the ethics of killing whales. Ever seen a video of it? Ever timed how long it takes the whales to die? It's horrendously inhumane and entirely unnecessary. But then, this is a nation that also cruelly slaughters dolphins and slices fins off sharks, throwing the sharks back in the water to sink and drown.
Japan claiming the whales are killed for research purposes is a farce. Nothing they ascertained from their so-called "research" is new and undiscovered. Japan's cruel whale-killing expeditions must be stopped.
Hi Bridget. Thanks for
Hi Bridget. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree that the killing in the name of research is a farce. The Japanese believe they have a cultural right to hunt the whales. However the vast majority of the worlds population are against commercial whaling. Japan should repsect that in international waters the wishes of the overwhelming majority should hold sway.
Only those on the payroll of
Only those on the payroll of the Japanese support whaling. Wether thats in the IWC ( ie Mongolia) or on web pages such as this.
Im fairly sure that the Japanese Whalers and people on their payroll such as Glenn Inwood have a team of people to search out news on Japanese whaling each day and post comments that support this cruel and inhumane practice.
Iceleand is now most definatly on the payroll as they will be sending a container load or two of fin whale meat back to japan for consumption.
It is a crying shame to think of these creatures being served on a plate with some soy sauce and wasabi before being chewed up, the contents arriving int he stomach of the consumer, mixing with a bit of bile and other gunk before ultimatly ending up excreted and flushed down a japanese loo.
I like my whales very much alive, thanks all the same, and swimming freely, and supporting the ever popular whale watching tours which is now oneof the biggest eco-tourism activities int he world.
It is beyond the realm of rational thinking to support the destruction of creatures such as whales, which are some of the most intelligent and social creatures on the planet. There is no humane way to kill a whale...the scenes that show whales being harpooned, dragged to the processing boats in great pain and half of their backs or tails missing, writhing in red water stained with blood,before being elecrocuted by 50,000 volts, hung in the water and drowned or even shot by high powered rifles ...makes a mockery of human kind.
Japan does not own these whales. They are living in designated whale sanctuaries, in waters claimed also by Australia and new Zealand.
However , just as Japan did not recognise borders in WW2 or recognise the coneva Convention, they also fail to recognise the Antratic waters as a whale sanctuary. It is claimed that the whaling industry in japan is run by the Japanese organized crime syndicate called the Yakusa.
No matter how hard Inwood and his ilk try, he is defending the indefensible. Japanese whalers are targeting endangered Fin and threatened Minke whales in an established international whale sanctuary in violation of a global moratorium on commercial whaling and in contempt of an Australian Federal Court ruling prohibiting their whaling operations in Australian waters. They are in violation of the Antarctic Treaty and the Convention on Trade in Endangered Species of Flora and Fauna.
The Australian government has made a mess on protecting whales despite som ebig promises before the last election. We can only hope that the teams of Sea Sheperd and to a lesser extent, Greenpeace, can bring about an end to this shameful industry.
Thanks very much for taking
Thanks very much for taking the time to have some input. I enjoyed reading your comments - very thought provoking. Unfortunately while the public relations war on both sides rages, whales still die.
If Iceland is on the payroll
If Iceland is on the payroll of "the Japanese" for exporting their products there, is New Zealand on their payroll too for sending their kiwifruits? How about Norway? How about the US? They kill whales there too. How about Greenland? They don't export whale products to Japan, but they do distribute them in supermarkets. How about St Vincent and the Grenadines, where they eat humpback whales? I suppose you have a conspiracy theory about all that too.
The IWC Antarctic "sanctuary" only applies to commercial whaling, and this sanctuary was only established in 1994 by a tyranneous then-majority, after commercial whaling in the Antarctic had already ended several years earlier. The "sanctuary" contravenes the IWC's own convention, and the only effect it has ever had is to give politicians in anti-whaling nations another line for their anti-whaling rhetoric.
What a joke of an
What a joke of an announcement by cartoonish 'scientists'. It baffles my mind how the Japanese are killing our oceans and lie so blatantly about it. If the IWC can't do it, I'm glad the Sea Shepherd is there at least trying..
Sea Shepherd isn't there.
Sea Shepherd isn't there. Japan, Iceland and Norway all hunt whales in northern hemisphere waters entirely unimpeded. Sea Shepherd only gets away with it in the Southern Ocean because of the lax authorities in Australia.
The other anonymous person
The other anonymous person commenting for the Japanese whaling fleet is obviously doing so because he has money coming his way. Do not listen to him. Sea Shepherd has opposed whaling all over the world. Check your facts. Whales and dolphins are very close to humans. They live with family members their entire lives. Some species of whales never leave their mothers their entire lives. How would you like to see a family member harpooned and take 30 agonizing min to die. My guess is if you put yourself in those animals places, you would be signing a different tune. We have to broaden our compassion to all living things. Otherwise we humans don't stand a chance, and mother nature will beat us all.
We can't keep playing "God" with the resources on this planet. If we take out the highest on the food chain ie whales, tigers, wolves.. etc... it will have dire consequences and we will all die. it's that simple. If you don't care about the whales and the Earth, you don't care about the longevity of human kind.
For the pro-whaling
For the pro-whaling anonymous, I think we will agree to disagree. I do not like the practice of whaling. They are unique special creatures that have been pushed to the brink by two centuries of hunting. It is time to give them a break from death and destruction - they have earned it. If the Japanese want to hunt whales in their own waters then that is their decision. I don't like it but that is their choice. But for the Southern Ocean please leave it alone and repect the wishes of the nations in that area. We would much rather have a commercial industry enabling people to see the whales in their natural habitat, than one based on reducing their numbers still further. Just like scenic safaris in Africa have replaced the big game hunting of the past. Lets celebrate our unique wildlife not destroy it.
I agree we will have to
I agree we will have to agree to disagree, and you are welcome not to like the "practice of whaling", just as I do not like the "practice of culturally based intolerance". So long as we can agree to disagree, I think there is no problem. Your English comments on your New Zealand forum however can't do much to change it. Maybe sarcastic criticisms of Japan help take your mind off the nasty stuff that New Zealanders are doing on their farms (where I myself spent many a summer as a child), I don't know, but it's not going to change what the whaling peoples of the world do.
Your additional comments do interest me however, so allow me to share my thoughts.
Whales are "unique special creatures"? What animal is not special and unique?
Two centuries of hunting did heavily deplete levels of various whale species, and some such as the Blue Whale remain in a poor state. Such species ought remain protected. However there are other species which were not so seriously depleted, and some have recovered well. The historical fact of past exploitation does not, to my mind, preclude further exploitation in future. History can be learned from and in this case it most certainly has, if one cares to read about the IWC Scientific Committee's activities over the past 25 years. Indeed if we were to say any over-exploitation should preclude future exploitation, then pretty much all fishing too ought to be banned.
As for the Southern Ocean, Japan and other nations including New Zealand have signed an international agreement that was drafted with the explicit aim of sustainably utilising whale resources that feed in those particular international waters. "Please leave it alone", well that's fine now although 60 years have past since the agreement was drafted, and New Zealand is adhered to it. If you do have a problem with it I suggest you ask whether it is acceptable that the New Zealand government maintains it's adherence to this international agreement. I suspect you'll find that the answer is that New Zealand doesn't like the agreement anymore, but doesn't want to do the honourable thing and withdraw from it, because it doing so New Zealand forfeit the ability to participate in obstructing the organization from fulfilling it's whaling management mandate. This is dishourable behaviour at least, but I suppose if one likes whales enough, then these are the types of trade-offs people are prepared to make. But the consequences for international agreements signed in good faith ought to be taken into consideration, as well as New Zealand's image on the international stage. Indeed, New Zealand isn't the only nation with this issue. But one child behaving poorly is not an excuse for others to behave so also.
I would also point at that sustainable whaling does not involve "reducing [whale] numbers further". Like other animals, whales have offspring. They copulate just like any animal does. The natural rates of increase for healthy whale populations are different to other animals, but through study and understanding of these population dynamics it becomes possible to determine, within the bounds of uncertainty, levels of harvest that would not reduce the over-all abundance of a population of whales from year to year or over a sustained period of time. (This scientific understanding unfortunately was not developed until various whale stocks had already been overexploited, but we do have this knowledge now.) As such, there is no reason to think that whaling and whale watching activities can not both exploit the same whale populations. Indeed, I do not actually see any whale watching industry struggling because of Antarctic minke whale catches over the past 3-4 decades. New Zealand's industry exploits sperm whales mainly, anyway.
Still, I accept that you may not like whaling inspite of all of this, and that is fine. However whaling is not an evil, and when managed properly it will not drive whales to extinction. It can today in the 21st century be sustainable, and it can co-exist with whale watching industry, as is currently demonstrated in Japan, Iceland and Norway.
What I hope to see from the New Zealand government as its populace matures as a nation is a recognition of these points, and a switch from kneejerk, culturally based reactions to a more constructive approach. New Zealand does not have to participate actively in whaling, but it may indeed have something to offer that will help the IWC fulfill its mandate of ensuring the conservation of whale populations and the development of whaling industry. I'm yet to see it, but I do hold out hope.
If Iceland is on the payroll
If Iceland is on the payroll of "the Japanese" for exporting their products there, is New Zealand on their payroll too for sending their kiwifruits?
Last time I checked, kiwi fruits were not endangered, there is no protesting the exporting of kiwi fruits, and kiwi fruits dont die in a cruel, inhumane fashion.
Commercial whaling is another thing altogether. Some years ago, new Zealand did have ties with commercial whaling activities by Japan.
Sealord ,one of New Zealands largest sefood retailers , Sealord, was partly owned ( 50 per cent) by Japanese whaling interests ( Nissui)
The Japanese were forced to sell up their New zealand seafod interests because of their whaling behaviour which went against the interests and ethics of the New Zealand people.
Nissui , along with the other shareholders in the company "Kyodo Senpaku", gave away its shares. A press release from Kyodo Senpaku release includes: "the shares of our company will be transferred to several public-interest corporations including the ICR,( Institute of Cruel "research") so that the share ownership will better reflect our activities".
The ICR is the Japanese "Research" Institute that chartered Kyodo Senpaku's Ships and crews to carry out whaling in the southern ocean.
How about Norway?
Norway has been attempting to export to Japan for several years, though this has been hampered by concerns in the Japanese domestic market about the effects of pollution in the blubber of the North Atlantic Minke whale. The domestic hunt was suspended half way through this year due to saturation of the market. Noraway is not bound by the IWC, as is Japan. As Norway has lodged objections to the relevant items in the ( IWC) Schedule, it has exercised its right to set national catch limits for its coastal whaling operations for minke whales. The Commission has passed a Resolution calling on Norway to halt all whaling activities under its jurisdiction.
How about the US? They kill whales there too.
If you checked your facts, you would realise that the US hunt is restricted to hunting by native peoples. Bowhead, beluga and gray whales are hunted by the Alaskan Eskimos, whilst
the Makah tribe in Washington State got the green light from the IWC to resume the hunt for gray whales after a 70 years hiatus, with an annual quota of four animals. This is a long way short of the commercial operations which Japan is conducting, outside of its territory.
How about Greenland? They don't export whale products to Japan, but they do distribute them in supermarkets.
Well, doesnt look as though they are on the payroll of Japan?
However they would support Japan no doubt in the IWC. The Home Rule Government of Greenland participates in the IWC as part of Denmark. Greenland participates independently in the Canada-Greenland Joint Commission on the Conservation and Management of Narwhal and Beluga, as well as in the North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission (NAMMCO).
How about St Vincent and the Grenadines, where they eat humpback whales? I suppose you have a conspiracy theory about all that too.
The Japanese whaling interests and the governments of St Vincent and Grenadines share a cosy relationship.
Since the mid-1980s, St Vincent and the Grenadines has developed and maintained a good relationship with Japan.Japan has offered technical expertise in the fields of fishing gear technology; outboard and inboard engine repair and maintenance; food technology, product development and quality assurance; and biological research. Over the past six years or so, there has been significant infrastructural development at various landing sites.
Japan built a fishery complex, supplied millions of dollars worth of development grants, and supplied fiberglass boats to the fishermen in return for St. Lucia's vote at the IWC.
At the annual International Whaling Commission (IWC) meetings, six small Caribbean states continue to vote down whale sanctuaries in favor of undermining restrictions on whaling. Antigua, Grenada, St. Lucia, Dominica, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, and St. Kitts-Nevis have done so every year since the government of Japan bought their IWC memberships for them almost ten years ago and proceeded to pour more than $100 million in "fisheries development" aid into their economies in exchange for cooperation on whaling
Jane Tipson, a dedicated conservationist and animal rights activist, was murdered as she drove onto her property in St. Lucia around 1:30am on Wednesday, September 17, 2003. She was shot in the head at close range.
The murder was clearly a contract killing. There is some question as to who was involved and why they would want Jane killed. An article about Jane's murder appeared in the London Times Sunday edition on page three and there they eluded to the probability that the contract killing was carried out because of her work against the Dolphin Fantaseas plans to create a dolphin encounter tourist attraction in St. Lucia and other islands in the Caribbean region. This group has a very shady past and currently has dolphin encounter operations in Anguilla and Antigua.
Many representatives of St. Lucia's strongest industry - tourism - worry about the image this Caribbean island nation is presenting to the rest of the world.
The IWC Antarctic "sanctuary" only applies to commercial whaling, and this sanctuary was only established in 1994 by a tyranneous then-majority, after commercial whaling in the Antarctic had already ended several years earlier. The "sanctuary" contravenes the IWC's own convention, and the only effect it has ever had is to give politicians in anti-whaling nations another line for their anti-whaling rhetoric.
So , does this mean that pro-whaling discussions are also rhetoric? Or do you assume that por-whaling arguements have some validity?
Commercial whaling, was banned in 1986.Under international rules, the giant sea mammals are allowed to be killed for research but not to make money.
It is quite clear that Japan is hunting whales commercialy, and is now buying whale meat from Iceleand. I am sure that this whale meat that is being exported from Iceland to Japan is not being used for so called " research" but rather " consumption".
The Japanese whaling interests claim that the objectives ( of so called scientific whaling) are to determine the population structure and feeding habits of several whale species, including endangered fin and sei whales, in order to "manage" stocks.
This research is nothing more than a guise for commercial whaling activities. The Japanese whaling is a criminal operation in violation of the Antarctic Treaty, the regulations of the International Whaling Commission (IWC), the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) and numerous other international regulations.
Nichola Raihani is at the Institute of Zoology in London and Tim Clutton-Brock is Prince Philip Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Cambridge
According to them, "given that there is considerable variation in the capacity of different whale populations to recover from stock depletion (Marine Mammal Science, vol 24, p 183), the value of the research for understanding populations outside the Antarctic and western north Pacific - which may one day be reconsidered for commercial whaling - is limited. This fundamentally undermines the justification for scientific whaling".
Covert DNA testing of whale products on sale in Japan, and reported to the IWC, has uncovered meat not only from minke whales but also from protected species such as humpbacks, orcas and even the rare blue whale, critics say.
Recent advances in non-lethal techniques such as biopsies mean that data can now be obtained without killing whales. Similarly, it is no longer necessary to kill whales to work out what they have been eating, as this can be determined from DNA in samples of faeces.
Despite the international ban, or moratorium, on commercial whaling, many whale populations have not recovered and are still endangered due to other threats including entanglements with fishing gear, degradation of habitat and collisions with ships.
The Scientific Committee of the IWC has explicitly stated that the results generated by the Japanese Whale Research Program in the Antarctic (JARPA) "were not required for management". Independent research shows that the data may overestimate whale abundance by up to 80 per cent (Marine Ecology Progress Series, vol 242, p 295).
Also, according to the IWC website, the Commission cannot interfere with the right of a member nation to issue a permit, ( note these are self issued permits by Japan) it can comment on the permit, after receiving the report of the Scientific Committee. In recent years, the Commission has passed a number of Resolutions asking governments to refrain from issuing specific permits. According tot eh IWC, these discussions are "usually contentious and the Resolutions passed by relatively small majorities".
The Antartic whale sanctuary was the original whale sanctuary. The first IWC sanctuary was established in the Antarctic in 1938, south of 40°S between longitudes 70°W and 160°W. The original reason for this was that in this sector commercial whaling had not hitherto been prosecuted and it was thought highly desirable that the immunity which whales in this area had enjoyed should be maintained.
The Australian Whale Sanctuary was proclaimed in 2000 under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation (EPBC) Act 1999, and includes the waters within Australia's 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone adjacent to the Australian Antarctic Territory. Since July 2000 hunting whales in the Australian Whale Sanctuary has been an offence attracting heavy penalties.
The Southern Ocean whale sanctuary, which completely surrounds Antarctica, was agreed upon by the IWC in 1994 by a vote of 23-1, with only Japan opposing the plan.
Japan lost a bid at the International Whaling Commission (IWC) in 1994 to do away with a whale sanctuary in the Antarctic that it said was no longer ecologically justified.
The IWC rejected Japan's proposal by 25 votes to 30, failing to give the pro-whaling bloc even a simple majority.
Japan had already lost three major votes seen as indicative of its ability to swing the 66-member body back to the whaling lobby, scrap a 19-year moratorium and resume full-scale commercial whaling.
It argues that depleted whale stocks have sufficiently recovered since the 1986 ban came into place for whale herds to support sustainable harvesting.
Japan's reason for continuing its whaling industry, that its annual Southern Ocean whaling expedition is for scientific study, has been universally condemned as false.
Japan's fishing industry is no stranger to using science to cloak controversial commercial activities.
When an international regulatory body decided against increasing the quota for the critically endangered southern blue fin tuna, Japan announced a "scientific fishing" program and caught 1,400 tonnes of the fish in addition to its quota.
In November 2004 HSI ( Humane Society International) commenced Federal Court action against the Japanese whaling company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha Ltd for routinely slaughtering whales in Australia’s Whale Sanctuary in breach of Australian law.
HSI had to overcome several obstacles during this case, including the Japanese government's refusal to routinely serve the court documents to Kyodo Senpaku.
The Federal Court of Australia confirmed that the Japanese whaling company (Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha)is in breach of Australian law when it kills whales in the Australian Whale Sanctuary and has ordered that the hunt be stopped.
http://www.hsi.org.au/editor/assets/legal/Whale_Case_judgement_15_Jan_2008.pdf
Wed, 21/10/2009 - 22:06 —
Wed, 21/10/2009 - 22:06 — Anonymous (not verified)
Sea Shepherd isn't there.
Sea Shepherd isn't there. Japan, Iceland and Norway all hunt whales in northern hemisphere waters entirely unimpeded. Sea Shepherd only gets away with it in the Southern Ocean because of the lax authorities in Australia.
Norway is in blatant violation of the global moratorium on commercial whaling imposed by the International Whaling Commission in 1986. Japan uses the pretext of "scientific whaling" to justify their illegal activities whereas Norway simply ignores the moratorium.
Monday, April 27, 2009
Outlaw Whaling Vessel Scuttled in Norway
http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-090427-1.html
During the evening of April 23rd, conservation commandos from Agenda 21 slipped onboard the Norwegian whaling ship Skarbakk in Henningsvaer in the Norwegian Lofoten Islands. With a monkey wrench they disassembled the salt-water intake valve (used for cooling the main engine). They then opened the valve and flooded the engine room.
As the ship settled low in the water, local firefighters arrived with pumps just in time to prevent the ship settling on the bottom. By then the ship had been completely filled with water however, destroying the machinery and electrical systems.
This scuttling represents losses for the ship's Norwegian underwriters and for Japanese investors who were partners with the owner of the Skarbakk.
The Agenda 21 commandos left a note that read: "We came to Henningsvaer. We saw the Skarbakk. We sank the bastard - Agenda 21"
This brings to 6 the number of illegal whaling boats sabotaged in Norway. These regular attacks have kept insurance premiums at exceptionally high rates. All whaling vessels in Norway have to pay war insurance premiums to operate their whaling vessels:
Nybraena 1992
Senet 1994
Elin-Toril 1996
Morild 1998
Willasen Senior 2007
Skarbakk 2009
Agenda 21 is a covert group that takes its name from the 1992 United Nations Conference on the Environment. Captain Paul Watson said at the conference that if Norway did not comply with international conservation law that Sea Shepherd would sink their ships. Captain Watson supervised the sinking of the Nybraena in 1992 and the Senet in 1994. After that the covert and anonymous organization Agenda 21 based in Norway took over the responsibility of enforcing international law against illegal Norwegian whaling operations.
"We don't know who they are, and we have no forewarning of their plans," said Captain Paul Watson. "But we do applaud their efforts, these laws must be enforced and Norwegian whalers are in blatant violation of the worldwide ban on commercial whaling. We are happy that Agenda 21 took over this task back in 1996 with the scuttling of the Elin-Toril. If I knew who they were, I'd give them a medal. It's always better when these things are taken care of by citizens in their own country and the Norwegians who are battling the whalers are like the resistance fighters who once took on the Nazi's in Norway - brave men and women trying to defend lives from war criminals. In today's whale wars, those who slaughter the whales are criminals and no different than elephant poachers in Africa. Except in Africa they shoot the poachers."
Thanks Imforthewhales.
Thanks Imforthewhales. Enjoyed the read. Thanks for the info.
japanese greed and
japanese greed and overfishing has resulted in over 200,000 tonnes of Tuna taken illegally by the japanese fishing fleets.
Now the southern Bluefin is on the endangered list.
How long will it be before the Minkes are on the endangered list.
Thanks Peter. I agree with
Thanks Peter. I agree with you. It seems when there is profit involved that conservation and sustainability are of secondary importance.
THE "ANONYMOUS" WHALER
THE "ANONYMOUS" WHALER POSTER BRINGS UP SOME INCREDIBLE POINTS, I THINK THIS DEMANDS MORE RESEARCH, INTO HIM
Anonymous Whaler wrote:
"1. They have also found that the composition of prey within the whale stomachs varies from year to year. It's not constant."
Response: Wow! This is amazing. Because just about every other animal, eats the same thing, year after year, day in and day out! So this is, well, all I can say is wow. I believe a phone call to the Ripley people is in order here, for listing! Who here doesn't eat the same thing everyday? I'm sure all of you do. Day in and day out, never changing. Anonymous-Whaler himself is even proof! It seems from all appearances that he too has been eating the same thing for quite some time!
So to hear that a whale's diet could possibly change from year to year, that is amazing. Kinda takes your breath away, there's so much we don't know about these animals, we definitely need to kill a lot more of them in order to stand in awe & wonder at all we don't know about them. But to those who say, why do we need to interfere to the point of killing them anyway, just to find out what a whale eats, I say phooey! In fact, I think the ICR's research hasn't gone far enough! It's not really enough, to study just those whales, we need to start probing into what our neighbors eat! More research, possibly by Japanese, is needed obviously, in that area. To spy on them. We all need to get in everybody elses business and start peering into what other people eat. This is important, because just like what a whale eats, is oh, so important in the "balance of the ecosystem" and all the "interdependence of species", so too is the much greater impact of the volume of what humans eat, on the balance of the ecosystem, and on the interdependence of species. Probably more important than the whale. Plus! By the ICR studying what Japanese citizens, and all humans eat, including their families, aunts, and uncles, and children, etc, and going around probing into everyone's eating habits, they can find out really interesting facts, like 96% of all Japan does NOT eat whale meat. And then this information can be used to show that conclusively shows that it is Not a Japanese national tradition, and that eating whale meat is Not Japanese culture! You see, then, millions of dollard could be saved. Because then Kyodo Senpaku could stop spending millions of dollars going all the way down to the Antarctic with 5 ships obtaining whale meat that hardly anybody in Japan wants! And then, they wouldn't have to charge every Japanese person in the country with subsidies for the losses of the whaling industry to pay the bills for things like the electric bill on warehouse-sized freezers that have been on for 10 years holding 4209 tonnes of frozen unsellable whalemeat that nobody wants to eat in the first place, and then go killing a thousand more in Antarctica, and buying more from Iceland. See, that way, by studying what the Japanese people actually DO eat, and want to eat, without it being forced on them in school lunches in hospitals, and studying it in such great fine detail as they insist they need to do with the whales, by studying what Japan's people eat, they could tell that Japanese dont like whale meat and then they could simply stop obtaining the pile of mercury contaminated poison morsels in the first place.
Anonymous Whaler wrote: 2.
Anonymous Whaler wrote:
2. You didn't read the reports properly. It's not just krill they found the whales to be preying on.
Response: Another amazing fact! I love it when you can come up with 2 research "results" out of 1! Brilliant! Apparently, you can lengthen a list of Research Results, by simply taking #1, and then re-writing it, and putting a 2 in front of it! This is quite a discovery. So now we can have an unlimited wealth of listings of Research Results from the Institute of Cretinous Research about whales, by simply restating it! Ok, so number 1, Whales eat other things than Krill. 2. Besides Krill, whales had some other things found in their stomachs. 3. Whales' diets vary and include some other things besides Krill. 4. Japanese Research has uncovered that whales eat a lot of Krill, plus some other things. 5. Some other things, besides Krill, were found, to be eaten. Hey! There's 5! Now you try it! Let's have a game of Japan Whale Science where the one that comes up with the longest list of "Results" wins a bag containing brain soaked with Mercury! It'll be fun. Bigger than Big Brother, surely This will be a big hit at the 4,522th annual meeting of the International Keep Rehashing the same things about Whaling and never do anything about it Commission meeting!
Anonymous-Whaler wrote:
3. "It's precisely because the IWC has an unnecessary ban on whaling that Japan can only collect the sort of data they are after via lethal methods. It's standard practice in fisheries for scientific information to be gleaned from commercial catches - the IWC ban precludes this, but the IWC convention recognises the utility of data from catches and thus nations are granted the rights to permit catches for such purposes."
Response: Wow! You are so right! I mean, in 1949, when this law was written, and Japanese Researchers are living, there was NO possible way, to get this valuable "Whales eat Krill, and other things, and mysteriously aren't the same every year" type of valuble knowledge that has changed the face of mankind. I mean hey! in 1949, there were no Integrated Circuits, no solid-state radio transmitters, no possible way, that a newborn calf could be lightly tagged, and followed to see how long it lives, rather than butchering it to count the rings in its ear-bones. No mobile phones, no GPS, no electron photomicroscopy, ROV's, no modern medical techniques, so hey, if the ICRW Law was written, allowing this "research" because modern techniques were not available in 1949, then why live in the modern age! That's what I say! There's a little song that goes "Today we're gonna Research like it's 1949!" or something like that. Big hit at ICR Japan. I mean, when your thesis hypothesis is, what effect does a harpoon grenade have on the head of a whale, obviously this requires lethal research! I mean how can one investigate and measure the amount of flaps of skin and pieces of flesh blown off the cheek of a whale, and studying how long a whale takes to die, Research paper #3 this year from the ICR, without lethal research! As long as we make our thesis hypotheses lethal, then lethally is the only way we can research it. See how that works? Amazing, isn't it! I mean, especially since the Institute of Cretinous Research in Japan has no computers. (didn't exist in 1949). So obviously can't do anything called a model, or computer simulation. I mean, heck, Japan, they aren't really known for computers, are they now? Sheesh. Some of these anti-whalers act like Japan has supercomputers or something! Sheesh. At least not usable by graduates of the Cretinous Research Institute. So to obtain this "research" we must test Japanese harpoon grenades, versus the Norwegian style harpoon grenades, and then we conclude, that "A harpoon grenade blows off the face of a small whale, a lot more than it damages one that's bigger." And that's enough to publish in the national Japanese Zoological Society Magazine of crack science! CC'd to the IWC scientific committee of course! And the best part of it: Hey, the life of a Japanese Whale Researcher, who else in the world gets to eat your Research science project after you're done experimenting with it, and taint your own brain and that of your family and child with heavy metal poisoning at the same time! Japanese Whale Researcher. A national embar-- I mean hero. And you get to help contaminate the brains of hundreds of thousands of your own country's school-children. That's one heck of a dream-job right there for pro-whalers, folks.
4. Anonymous had nothing
4. Anonymous had nothing pertinent here.
Anonymous-Whaler wrote:
5. They don't always get the full number. Weather etc plays a role.
Response: Wow! Amazing. Once again, the astonishing facts come forth. Who would have ever thought, that anything, anything at all would be affected by the weather. You know, that weather crap has been around for years. You'd think somebody would have done something about it by now. Found a cure for it or something already. Well, glad the Cretinous Research team is working on it. It'll be good to get rid of that Weather crap once and for all. And learning that whales eat Krill, (and other things! of course!) and that a grenade blows the face off a whale (if you hit it, of course!) and that a Grenade blowing up hurts a small whale more than a bigger one. Whew! See! Look at all the things that result from Whale Research! The list is endless! You know, they laughed at the Space program before, too, this stuff is going to be gold, you watch.
Anonymous-Whaler wrote:
"6. In Japan, whales and fish are both food. In seeking to optimise the utilisation of those marine resources it's natural to try to understand the effect they have on one and other. This is precisely what is done in other parts of the world with respect to fisheries where target species are known to interact. The only difference in this case is that Japan is interested in whales as one of the target species in the ecosystem they are planning to make management decisions about. Only people in anti-whaling nations seem to have a problem understanding this"
Response: "In Japan, whales and fish are both food." Wow! Brilliant! How do you know this stuff! Amazing! Did someone call you The Whiz Kid, or the Encyclopedia on 2 legs, when you grew up, because these facts are amazing! You should be in some kind of show or something, you could win something. -- Uhm. Wait. oh! hang on a second. I found a mistake! YOU MEANT TO SAY "In Japan, whales and fish are both food...AND OTHER THINGS!" Sorry, mate, I got ya. You're lucky I peer reviewed your work, aren't ya. Oh, and, in Japan, it varies. Put that too. But I must ask, how did you obtain this research result? I mean, you state as if with some certainty, that "In Japan, whales and fish are both food" but where is your paper on this? You know this needs peer-reviewed, right? Because you already had a flaw that we caught on you. So we need to see your data. What was your "sample-size"? And where is your stomach-contents analysis? How many Japanese people did you actually kill to take out their stomachs, in order to verify this broad statement that you made up there? Hmm? Where's your proof. I mean, anyone could see, by taking a video-camera (not available in 1949!) and setting it up and filming what goes into the mouth, but like YOU said, we really need to examine the stomach contents to be sure. I mean, who knows exactly, where it goes, after it enters the mouth! Nobody can be sure where that esophagus goes unless we dissect. And just because we open 1 person up, and see THEIR esophagus leads from their mouth to their stomach, DOESNT mean ALL of them do! No. For that, we need at least 59. Plus another thousand a year, plus 20,000 killed in outlying communities for that kind of Institute for Cretinous Research. Ok, so before making wild statements, like "In Japan, whales and fish are both food." you need to do a lot more Research, buddy. What type of grenades did you use on the subjects there, in order to find this out? And submit a paper on it. ok, later you can eat the bodies, that's up to you, but I wouldn't recommend any of it. But 1 thing is for sure, you need to show your research on this before you go stating wild statements "In Japan, whales and fish are both food"!
Anonymous-Whaler wrote:
"Japan is interested in whales as one of the target species in the ecosystem they are planning to make management decisions about. Only people in anti-whaling nations seem to have a problem understanding this."
Uh,no. People all around the world understand what you're doing quite fine, actually, what whalers attempt to do, is to say "We need to conduct commerical whaling, under the guise of "scientific research" in order to conduct commercial whaling, and use the "results" of this commercial whaling under the guise of "research" to justify commercial whaling." And if you think people don't understand what you're doing, then you've been eating too much mercury-infested whalemeat and it has dumbed your brain. You're using the Results to Justify the premise! You're doing commercial whaling, under the ruse of Research, and using that "Research" to justify the "need" to do more "Research". So when any person says a certain whale is endangered, what you're doing, is going oh, well, how do you know! Looks like we need to go Kill some (and eat them) in order to find out exactly how many there are, and decide if they are endangered or not. Itadakimasu! Nomm-nom, nommm...more shoyu..nom-nomm... can you pash that bowl of ICR reshersch over here, arigato gozhaimash. thanksh." The only species "management" you're doing is a Kyodo Senpaku middle manager salaryman deciding what shelf the species looks best on at SEIBU. When anyone says "You're killing them in-humanely" your ploy is to go "Oh, how do you know. Looks like we need to kill some more to measure it and find out how long it takes to die." You're going and killing them, in order to "find out" how many more of them you can kill. This is like someone saying they are studying the effects of rape, and in order to do that, they'll need to go out and rape some women to find out what effects it has on them. It's flawed, a logical fallacy, circular logic, junk science. And "research whaling" is not a "legal loophole" either. A loophole is when a certain overlooked thing is permitted in a law. However, when a certain thing is permitted, and it is found that you are NOT doing that, but you are really doing something else, and simply calling it that, that's NOT a legal loophole. That, my friend is known as something else: It's called FRAUD!
For example, if a Foundation granted a scholarship to deserving students, and stipulated they "use the money for their education", and then some guy came and took the money and then used it to buy drugs and resell them, and then when the grant source found out, he says "oh, well, I'm only learning and educating myself all about the drug-dealing business. So that means I'm using it to pay for education!" That's not a legal loophole. That, sir, in a court of law, is classified as Fraud.
Anonymous-Whaler wrote: "7.
Anonymous-Whaler wrote:
"7. Japan permits the catch of only 60 of these whales each year, not "all" of them."
Response: Wow! Only 60?? Thanks. That's really great because that really puts it in perspective. I mean, hey, there's no better justification for a crime, than trying to make it sound little. Right? And this is a great way to do that. For example, when a heinous act is committed, you can just say, well, hey, the girl-beater punched his girlfriend in the mouth, and gave her a black eye, and knocked her teeth out. And "Anonymous Whaler" could spring up and go: "But not ALL of them!" And everyone could cheer! And be happy. This is great, will have to remember this one. Hey, how many women were brutally raped last year in...Hokkaido... 60? Well, hey, to Anonymous whaler, thats a godsend. No big deal. It's only 60! It's not ALL of them or anything. I mean, sheesh, everyone's acting like Whaling and then eating them hurts the whales or kills them or something! my god.
This is almost as good as the "Someone else is doing something bad or worse, so that makes it ok for us to do something bad" one. This one is good! Like, Hey, don't bother us here in Japan, because Norway is whaling. Or the one about hey, don't bother us in Japan about whaling because USA kills children in Iraq, that one, used by pro-whalers, is a beute. Goes along with the cow,pig,chicken,kangaroo,thing. Hey, allow US to commit our atrocities, because... [insert any country name here] eats/has/does/kills/... [insert cows,kangaroos,dugongs,chickens,macdonalds,iraqwar,etc here]. It's a brilliant formula! Great for justifying crimes and falsely making like it's a battle of countries versus other countries, not the good people in all countries that care about things vs. the nasty minority that kill, exploit, commit crimes and taint the world. As Jon Lovitz would say: "Yeah! That's the ticket!" It's a great recipe for trying to get other people to allow you do commit all kinds of acts, by simply pointing a finger at something worse! And the fun thing about it, is that you can use it getting more & more severe, until it'll allow you to do just about anything! Example, hey, don't bother me about stealing this wallet, hey, afterall nobody got hurt! And "you" do it in "country name here" so worry about your own business 1st! See! that lets you steal people's wallets! And according to whalers, that's ok! And nobody should bother about it, because they should worry about their own business instead, and not call police if they even see the crime happen to somebody else! It's a great excuse to commit crimes, yes? Yes. Now, let's proceed... Hey, dont tell "us" not to commit rape, don't you know that there are many more rapes in the US than for us? Plus, it's not like she died or anything! She lived. So it's not as bad as how many murders there are in the US! So saying that makes our act of rape ok. Oh, and then murder, because it's only 1 or 2, it's not like the thousands killed by "country name here" in "name of some war here". Hey, we could get all the way up to where you could justify killing thousands of people and it'd be ok, because "at least it's not like Germany's genocide". -- So you see, these "not all of them" and "some other country does this" is such a great excuse, a pro-whaler can use that to get people to believe that they should be allowed to do almost anything! Great isn't it!
Anonymous Whaler wrote:
8. Why is Switzerland, who joined the IWC long before Mongolia, so pasionate (sic) about whaling? Interestingly there are more anti-whaling land-locked nations in the IWC than there are land-locked nations that support sustainable use of whale resources.
Ahh, yes, the brilliant use of "euphemasia". Hmm. Rather than saying "there are more landlocked anti-whaling nations than there are landlocked pro-whaling nations in the IWC, pro-whaling becomes "nations that support sustainable use of whale resources!" Brilliant! This is excellent. This has great potential! With this, the "Japanese kill ships" can become "Japanese Cruise Lines, the gentle carriers of cetacean families and their babies, liberating them from their earthly burden and transporting them to the ever-after, that great ocean in the sky, via children's school lunchplates." Japanese whalers selling mercury contaminated dolphin and whalemeat which causes brain damage, and can cause Japanese citizens to give birth to infants stricken with birth defects could become: "Deliciously guiding money from all of Japan's wonderful taxpaying citizens, into the coffers of fine upstanding yet needy whaling company management, and alleviating Japan's children from undue ridicule for being too intelligent by administering gentle doses of magic mercury mixed into a meal no one can refuse, when you're a child and its in your school lunch". This is great! Ok, let's see... Something's life becomes "whale resources", company property. Concocting a ruse which involves the commission of fraud to violate a world wide moratorium becomes "efficient management". And the intention that you're never going to stop killing things becomes the magic word "sustainable"! I think I've got it! It's amazing what you can get people to believe when you don't actually tell them what you're doing! Nice one!
Anonymous Whaler wrote:
As for Mongolia, they and Japan have good relations, Mongolia has no irrational objection to sustainable whaling, so why wouldn't they support Japan in that forum?
Response: Hmm, perhaps if Mongolia has no *irrational* objection, then they could simply use all the rational objections to it, such as, Whale meat has been found, by Japanese Researchers mind you, to contain toxic methyl mercuric poison, and Japan's own Health Ministry has issued warnings about it, so stop goading people to eat it.
But then again, like you said, Mongolia is landlocked, so obviously can't exploit making money off of whales by utilizing whale-watching since they don't have an ocean, and can find that they can make more money off of its meat and/or receiving aid in exchange for votes. Ahh. Nah. That can't be it.
just because one fish is
just because one fish is bigger than another don't make it special. I can't see why people get so worked up over other people eating animals that they like. I love cows, but have no problem with people eating hamburgers. I would be mad if you ate my cow, but eating cows in general is just fine by me.
I think the reason they call it "sustainable" hunting is that it does not reduce the population by much. That's why there is a limit on how many they can kill. Just like how eskimoes can hunt all kinds of otherwise illegal to hunt animals. Or how anyone can hunt deer. The limits are results of the research you hate so much. That's how we manage the population. If they were killing too many still, whale populations would be much lower than they are, if whales even still existed. Hunting in the 1800's and early 1900's were well on pace to wipe all whales out. We stopped the unchecked hunting and populations began to rise again.
Whales are beautiful creatures, but they are also delicious and fun to eat. I truly hope controlled and sustainable whaling continues forever for the benefit of many future generations
Well Questioner I do not
Well Questioner I do not agree with whaling but I respect the right of nations who have some of their population that like eating whale meat to hunt them if that is what they want to do. The key for me is that they do it in their own waters. If they are as good at sustainable whaling as they say they are then it won't be a problem. I have a big problem when they come all the way down to our part of the world and kill whales down here. The majority of people down here in the South Pacific are anti-whaling. We would like to see more of them around our coastline and have got a tourism industry building up around them.
Researcher-of-Anonymous-Whale
Researcher-of-Anonymous-Whalers...
Simply brilliant. Took the words right out of my mouth!
My quick oppinion in this is
My quick oppinion in this is simple, WHY does japan love whale meat? and if most of the world doeset approve of ANY form of whaling why doesent the UN ban it completely and arrest anyone who breaks thoes laws regardless of whaling nations objections? And these guys who spend hours thinking up Pro-Whaling Rhetoric are getting paid by the whaling companys to do it. [i love spewing lies for money where do i sign up!]
PS.
i bet i was the only person here who dident spend at least 20 minutes writing their comments
@Researcher of Anonymous
@Researcher of Anonymous Whalers
You made absolutely no attempt to understand Anonymous Whaler's comments in context and instead chose to write a wall of angry, ignorant sarcasm. I can appreciate that Anonymous Whaler may or may not be wrong and you may have some information or opinion that can be useful in this discussion but that's not the way to express it.
Personally, I think it is ridiculous for anyone to tell Japan, Iceland or any country that they just shouldn't harvest whale period, no matter if they do so in a sustainable, regulated manner or not. You may think that whales are majestic beautiful creatures that you have absolutely no desire to make use of as food, but that is culture-bound and not everyone shares that opinion. I believe in India there are quite a few people who don't particularly like the thought of using cows as a source of protein but we still eat a ton of it.
If you can cite particular examples of a company harvesting an endangered species of whale or harvesting more than the laws allow, then by all means call them out on it. However that is grounds for better regulation and enforcement, not proof that whale hunting is "evil".
"Goes along with the
"Goes along with the cow,pig,chicken,kangaroo,thing. Hey, allow US to commit our atrocities, because... [insert any country name here] eats/has/does/kills/... [insert cows,kangaroos,dugongs,chickens,macdonalds,iraqwar,etc here]. "
And just to respond to this, if you have a problem with people in the U.S. or wherever eating chicken,cow, kangaroos, etc." Then apparently you are just vegetarian which is a completely different issue then, and sorry to say most people aren't on board with that so don't use that to single out whaling countries like Japan as particularly evil.
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I don't get it 1. Have you
I don't get it
1. Have you people ever tried whale?
2. It's delicious!
3. I do think it's wrong for Japanese whalers to kill more than they need for food.
4. The obvious solution is people in Japan should eat more whales so as not to waste these majestic and delicious creatures. Or maybe export the leftovers to neighboring countries.
6/7. Don't you have the number 5 in the Southern Hemisphere?
8. That's why we're on top bitches.
Hey, Whale Eater is
Hey, Whale Eater is right!!
Whales taste great and people in the Southern Hemisphere are all dumb.
But just so you know for next time Whale Eater, listing your points by number like that makes you look like a lazy hack who doesn't know what he's talking about. Like you just happened across this topic, and even though you didn't really understand what was going on you felt the need to make your opinion known to the unprepared masses because it upset you deep down inside.
I hope you choke on a whale dick you upside down piece of shit from the bottom of the world
very eloquent prose from
very eloquent prose from previously misinformed.
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